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 Post subject: checking in the dark
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2011 16:59 
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I've used this in live tourneys, with quite a bit of success. My hands vary, but I especially like doing it with pocket pairs. I would put in a raise pre-flop, then before the flop I check dark. The post flop play will vary with feel & texture of the board, but in general it tends to draw a lot of action from the other players, whether it's a continuation bet, or maybe I'll check and give them a card or 2.

Now obviously this play can loose you pots you could have won otherwise, and I don't know if it's just because I've been playing local amateurs, but this tends to work for me to land big pots I likely wouldn't have gotten otherwise and/or get out cheaply.


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 Post subject: Re: checking in the dark
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2011 02:32 
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Joined: 24 Apr 2010 17:11
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Location: texas
ive tried this on occassions but found it to be very brutal online more than live. :beer:

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 Post subject: Re: checking in the dark
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2011 13:59 
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Joined: 01 Dec 2011 12:36
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i dont know about checking in the dark with pairs
i guess it might work out in the micros, but in high stakes poker whenever people check in the dark they usually are holding ak
which is actually pretty deceptive, because you would think that you would want to continue with ak and make a cbet to win regardless of the flop


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 Post subject: Re: checking in the dark
PostPosted: 13 Dec 2011 22:40 
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ingham wrote:
I would put in a raise pre-flop, then before the flop I check dark.


Do you mean you were the pre-flop raiser and then you checked dark? It seems to me like you would want to maintain initiative if you were the pre-flop raiser. Obviously there are some boards that are good to c-bet and some boards that aren't against various opponents, don't know why you would limit yourself to having to flop something to win the pot. In Hold em, especially in heads up pots, its rare to flop anything good. If your opponent starts with an unpaired hand they're only going to flop a pair or better about 30% of the time. Depending on board texture that number will change depending on board texture, but that is a whole different long discussion. Basically what I'm saying is if you're picking good boards to c-bet and don't look like a maniac you're making money by betting at boards when you have nothing because it's very likely your opponent also has nothing. Giving that up by checking dark when you're the pre flop raiser doesn't make sense.

If you mean you're calling a pre-flop raise then checking dark, that's not nearly as bad. Maybe your opponent will view a normal check on the flop as an indication you don't have much so they can bet with nothing, and will view the check dark as a reason to not bet with nothing because they don't have that information. Which could buy you some free cards. This also makes it more difficult to get value though when you do flop something good, so any good effects are probably fairly balanced by the bad.

You also said you get more action by checking dark. If I put myself in your opponents shoes and you were the pre-flop raiser and checked dark, I'd be confused and probably more likely to check if I have nothing and bet if I have something. If you have a pair this gives me another chance to catch up when I'm behind and an opportunity to get value when I flop a paid bigger than yours. If you are the pre-flop raiser and wait to check till you've seen the flop that gives me the green light to put the pressure on and take this pot because you've shown weakness. So I am for sure more likely to give you light action if you check after seeing the flop and give you action with more strong hands if you check dark. My action won't be affected if I'm the pre-flop raiser and you check dark. I'm c-betting the exact same range and board textures.

It's probably especially bad if you're doing this with mostly pairs like you're saying. Some small percentage of people will realize that you're mostly doing this with pairs and exploit that. You're giving away free information about your hand as well as taking a move out of your toolbox by checking dark in each case. Poker is a game of incomplete information, you might as well use all the information you have before making any decision.

cheers,
Chad

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